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I assume your wife has a "Residence Card" for a family member of an EU citizen (see picture). Is that correct?rolelero wrote:I am a Dutchman married to a Colombian, we live in the UK, my wife has a residency permit. Do we need a visa to go to Switzerland when we go skiing for a week? We are both traveling together.
Other countries (France/ Holland) we don't need a visa along a I travel with her. We have to explain it each time we arrive at immigration but it is ok, they just stamp her passport and we are on our way.
Can we do this for Switzerland too under the EU freedom of movement law?
We have tickets, accommodation, passports and marriage certificate?
Anyone who can help me with this, your advise is greatly appreciated! Perhaps has experienced the same?
Hi rolelero,rolelero wrote:I am a Dutchman married to a Colombian, we live in the UK, my wife has a residency permit. Do we need a visa to go to Switzerland when we go skiing for a week?
correctEUsmileWEallsmile wrote:(...)I don't know the specifics of Switzerland's ascension to schengen. I do know that UK and Ireland residence cards are not accepted in lieu of visa.(...)
Do you mean transit visas for Switzerland? It´s as follows: If you purely transit, you don´t need a visa. However, "transit" is only when you go from non-Schengen to non-Schengen.EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:What I would like to know though is whether the requirement for transit visa applies to EU family members as it is specifically excepts family members from visas.
I say the law is pretty clear, however the result of the rules are (insert swearword for "senseless").EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:It's all rather vague.
hi rolelero,rolelero wrote:...the problem is that if I need a visa we can't get any appointments, there are none in December
Why not? Because of the EU-family-member visa regulations?EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:Personally, I won't be visiting Switzerland - what a pity, I've heard it's beautiful, but expensive!
Christian, I would recommend that you actually do this, especially the newspapers!ca.funke wrote:If this is so, I´d love if you would write a letter to the ministry of foreign affairs here, pointing out to them that they just lost a paying tourist because of their futile regulations.
The newspapers might also be interested, as losing tourists doesn´t go down well lately consdidering the currency situation...
I outlined exactly the same to the ministry.fysicus wrote:So, they require a visa for persons, who
a) had visa-free entry to Switzerland before, and
b) still have visa-free entry to all other Schengen countries
If you can see the logic in this, I recommend that you make an urgent appointment at the nearest psychiatric clinic!!
Although this is so, it is still senseless and silly, since EU-family-members with UK residence permits are legally allowed to enter all EU countries, and hence they can enter Schengen, but not Switzerland.original reply from ministry wrote:(...)Nicht alle EU-Länder scheinen die Richtlinie umzusetzen. Da stellt sich dann für uns (die Schweiz) die Frage, ob wir einseitig Freiheiten gewähren sollen, welche innerhalb der EU untereinander nicht gewährt werden.(...)
Here I´d disagree, since the UK is in clear breach of 2004/38/EC by not allowing EU-family-members to enter the UK without a visa. So the Swiss, albeit illogical, are not just plainly breaking the law like the UK.fysicus wrote:Despite the complex treaty situation, in the UK it is so that citizens of Switzerland (or Norway, another non-EU Schengencountry) have exactly the same rights as EU-citizens, including all the facilities for non-EEA family members. And if Switzerland considers itself a civilised country, you might expect reciprocity in this area!
Same here: We didn´t travel to the UK after we moved from Ireland to Switzerland. Before we did a few times (from Ireland), carrying a copy of the law, but luckily we were just never checked.fysicus wrote:And indeed, my wife and myself have not been to Switzerland since they joined Schengen!
I wrote a short letter to the editor of a Zürich newspaper. I doubt it´ll get printed. Should it be printed, I´ll post it herefysicus wrote:Christian, I would recommend that you actually do this, especially the newspapers!
answer from me: yesDirective/2004/38/EC wrote:Scenario: I have a UK issued Residence Card. I fly to Munich and enter Schengen normally. After a few beers, I then drive to Zurich. There is no border check (I assume).
Question: Have I legally entered Switzerland?
I do not defend the Swiss in this matter. What they do is stoopid.fysicus wrote:It is true that there are various inconsistencies and other errors in the transposition of directive 2004/38 into national law, but I don't find it a valid argument to defend the Swiss position in this matter. Whereever national legislation conflicts with the directive, the EU directive applies directly (with Switzerland as an exception of course), and numerous court cases have shown that...
After a few beers you shouldn´t driveDirective/2004/38/EC wrote:Scenario: I have a UK issued Residence Card. I fly to Munich and enter Schengen normally. After a few beers, I then drive to Zurich. There is no border check (I assume).
No. You can enter all of Schengen, but not Switzerland. That´s because 2004/38/EC is an EU law with EEA relevance. As a consequence you may even enter Liechtenstein, but NOT Switzerland. (There are no checks between Liechtenstein and Switzerland)Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Question: Have I legally entered Switzerland?
There are 2 exits: One for France, one for Switzerland. Incoming Schengen passengers can proceed to France without any check and to Switzerland with the (usual) customs-only check.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Question 2: What if I fly to Basel? Is there (still) an exit to France which I could use legally and an exit to Switzerland which would be illegal for me to use? Whose border guards man the border post for incoming non-Schengen passengers?
[b]Handbook[/b] wrote: B. Operational instructions addressed to the consulates of Switzerland
Legal basis
Switzerland does not apply Directive 2004/38/CE but applies the Agreement of 21 June 1999
between the Swiss Confederation and the European Community and its Member States on the
free movement of persons (AFMP).
:
1.1. Differences between Directive 2004/38/EC and the AFMP
The definition of family members under the AFMP and Swiss national legislation is less
restrictive than the one under Article 2(2) (b) of Directive 2004/38/EC. Swiss national
legislation also confers the same rights to persons who do not fall within the above definitions
(see points 2.1 and 2.2 below). The facilities are granted to family members who travel alone
(irrespective of whether the purpose of the trip is to join the EU citizen or not) or accompany
the EU citizen.)
The AFMP does not provide for the exemption from the visa requirement of family members
of EU citizens. They are, however, exempted from the visa requirement, if they hold a valid
travel document and a residence permit listed in the List of residence permit issued by
Members States, Annex 2 .
thanks, updated now, its the bloody commission changing their web links again.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Your link to the handbook does not work for me. I offer instead a highlighted version I made a few months ago: SchengenVisaHandbook2010
ROMANIA
Please note: These residence permits do not entitle to a visa-free stay in the Schengen area, as
Romania has not yet become a Schengen member state.
:
BULGARIA
Please note: These residence permits do not entitle to a visa-free stay in the Schengen area, as
Bulgaria has not yet become a Schengen member state.