Where does Norway stand with this directive?

[Graham Weifang]

Hello every one,

It is reassuring to know just how many very clever persons are here, and how well many of them know the EEA immigration procedure.

I have a question, if I may,

I am UK citizen,
born in UK
Both my parents are UK parents,
I am a UK passport holder.

My "soon to be wife is Chinese"
With Chinese passoprt etc.
We will marry in China, in a few months.
Then I will take employment in Norway.
I have worked in Norway in the past, and expect to gain employment there again after we marry.
My employment in Norway normally lasts 1 year as a time.

What would be the procedure, as I can travel to Norway with no restrictions.
Does my new wife and I firstly apply to the Norwegian embassy/consulate in Beijing, and produce our Chinese marriage documents?

I am hoping she can fall under the directive of free movement for wives of EU nationals, like myself, and she will be issued a Norwegian visa, which should be "fast and free"
The visa should then allow us to enter as a married couple.

Further to that, when we both arrive in Norway, and I would then rent our accommodation for the 1 year duration of the employment, then after 3 months, we apply for the "family residence card"
Is this the correct way?

Please indicate if I have misunderstood the procedure.

Graham Weifang

[acme4242]

Your wife will need an ordinary visit visa, not any special visa
with extra procedure.
Yes, you will need to show you marriage cert.
if you want to get the visa free, with little other supporting documents

Here is some useful links on Norway and EU directive 2004/38/EC

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... fo-norway/

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... mment-5814

Norway have incorporated Directive 2004/38/EC in their Emigration law of
2008. Utlendingsloven Chapter 13 i saying: ”Familiemedlemmer til en
EØS-borger omfattes av bestemmelsene i dette kapittelet så lenge de
følger eller gjenforenes med en EØS-borger”

This basically says that a any familly member of EU/EEA citizen have right
of free movement as long as they travel with or to join the EU/EEA citizen.

While I cannot find any information about EU citizens and their family members on the Norway-Beijing site, I can find it on the Norway-London
http://www.norway.org.uk/Embassy/visas/visas/eea/

EEA family members applying for visa:
Spouses, descendants and dependent ascendants of EU or EEA nationals without EU residence card must still apply for a visa and submit the following supporting documents:

1. Your passport or travel document
Make sure that your passport is valid for at least 3 months beyond your intended stay in Norway and that the passport has a blank page for a visa sticker.

2. One recent colour passport size photograph
The photos must be less than 6 months old, have a light background and be of good quality (must be taken in a photo booth or by a professional photographer). For more information, please click here (please do NOT use paperclips or staples to attach the photos to the application form).

3. Original:
Marriage Certificate (if you are married to an EU or EEA citizen)
Birth Certificate (if one or both of your parents are EU of EEA citizens- the certificate needs to state both parents` names)
The Birth Certificate of the son / daughter you depend on (if you are a dependent ascendant of an EU or an EEA citizen- the certificate needs to state both parents` names)

4. The EU / EEA national's original passport

5. Visa application fee

Fee to be refunded after they receive your marriage cert,
very strange procedure,

[Graham Weifang]

Hello acme4242,

Firstly, may I thank you very much for taking the time and effort to post such a great reply.

The links, and the information in your post is exactly what I was looking for.

It looks like Norway have been rather sensible with the EEA directive, which is a breath of fresh air, considering all the hurdles UKBA put in the way.

Actually, I see no future for me working in UK.

It appears from brief reading the links, that when I arrive, I should register, with the local police.
This will gain me a registration certificate.
My wife will not get a registration certificate, but instead she will receive a residence card.

Once again, THANK YOU.

Vette

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Are you presently living with your wife in China?

Let us know if there are any issues!

[Graham Weifang]

Hi Directive/2004/38/EC,

Yes we are still very happy living together in China.
I am still waiting for the divorce to complete in UK.
As soon as the divorce in UK is completed, then we will marry in China.
We have just recently had our 3rd year living together as "husband and wife"
I am hoping by the middle of June 2012, the UK divorce will be complete.
Then I can apply for my "no impediment to marry" document/affidavit in UK, and translated in to Chinese.
From there we will travel up North to her home town, where her Huko is registered.
We will then plan our next steps to move to UK as "husband and wife"
I am hoping that the number of years we can prove we have been living as "husband and wife" here in China, will be looked upon favourably when it comes for her (us) to apply for her marriage visa for UK.
I guess then all is needed is for us to wind our jobs up here in Weifang, and plan our new lives together in UK.
We are still not 100% sure we will live in UK, as most of my work would probably be in Norway.
This may (expect will) cause complications when the totting up comes, as to how long she has spent out of UK.
I believe there is a set number of days, she must be in UK for in order to qualify for P.R.
However, reading that if we have 4 years or more, living together in a foreign country, then it could be that she is given P.R. opon entry to U.K. ?

Suggestions?

Gra.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

It sounds like you are abandoning the EU route and going to apply for a UK spouse visa? Have I understood you correctly?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Graham,

Welcome back.

Are you still planning to move to Norway?

While you can wait until your divorce is finalized, and then you remary, there is another option.

You have been living together for a long time. You can apply for the free movement visa on the basis of your common-law relationship. You will need to provide evidence that you have been together over the period you describe, but the visa should still be issued quickly and for free. It should not matter that you are not yet divorced.

The benefit of the common-law route is that it could be done 4 weeks from now.

[Graham Weifang]

It sounds like you are abandoning the EU route and going to apply for a UK spouse visa? Have I understood you correctly?

.
Hi EU smile,

As far as the EU route is concerned, I think we are still 100% heading in that direction.
The fact that there is almost no work of my profession in UK, does some what force me to look else where.
I am generally into Oil & Gas, and there is very little O&G related work in UK, yet Norway has abundance of it.

Gra.

[Graham Weifang]

Graham,

Welcome back.

Are you still planning to move to Norway?

While you can wait until your divorce is finalized, and then you remary, there is another option.

You have been living together for a long time. You can apply for the free movement visa on the basis of your common-law relationship. You will need to provide evidence that you have been together over the period you describe, but the visa should still be issued quickly and for free. It should not matter that you are not yet divorced.

The benefit of the common-law route is that it could be done 4 weeks from now.

.
.
Hello Directive/2004/38/EC, and very nice to hear back from you also.
This is quite interesting, and certainly a good option for us.
We have common address, to which our bank accounts are linked.
We are both named on the rental agreement.
We have many hotel reservations, all dated, which go back several years when we were traveling and enjoying our trips around China, and abroad.
On comparing our passports, it is plain to see we both enter and exit for example, Crete, Vietnam, South Africa, UK, ( my UK passport however does not get stamped, but it will be recorder as an entry for me) Morocco, all on the same dates as stamped in our passports.
Also we have joint flight & train bookings.
I am hoping we have sufficient documentation to prove this long, ongoing relationship.

The 4 weeks rule, sounds great.

Gra.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Actually it is not really a 4 week rule. Just a (ignorant) estimate on my part.

I would suggest you put together a cover letter which lays out all the evidence so that even a dummy could see it.
- matching entry travel stamps for travel to the following countries (with list of coutries and entry date)
- rental contract(s)
- bank accounts
- individual and joint post to the address
If you do not point it out in the letter, assume that the person at the visa post will manage to overlook it.

Also explain in the cover letter that you are a British citizen and that you wish to move to Norway for your work. That you are involved in a long term durable relationship with your partner which began in 200x. Explain that this is an application based on Article 3 Paragraph 2(b) and Article 5 Paragraph 2 of Directive 2004/38/EC for a Schengen visa for your partner to enter Norway.

Photocopy everything. Submit. Do not pay a fee. And see what happens next.

Please let us know as this develops. Very curious how Norway treats applications like this. Hopefully professionally and quickly.

[Graham Weifang]

Hi Directive/2004/38/EC,

Excellent reply,

I take my hat off to you sir,

Reading through the directive, and to the points you discuss


Explain that this is an application based on

----Article 3 Paragraph 2(b) and
----Article 5 Paragraph 2 of Directive 2004/38/EC

for a Schengen visa for your partner to enter Norway.

Those 2 articles are spot on,

I feel rather confident of a success story in the making.

Gra.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

So the way this works is that you apply. And then somebody reads your application. If they know what they are doing, the visa gets issued quickly and easily (most likely). If they do not know what they are doing, and yours is not the very simple case of a married couple, then they do something stupid or refuse you because you did not include proof that your wife is a millionaire or something similarly odd. And then you appeal or just apply again with an even more clear cover letter.

Glad to be of help. As I said, please let us know how this develops.

Very pale white strawberries (wild?) are for sale in Oslo in (??) August. They are wonderful. Hope you are there in time!

[Graham Weifang]

Hi Directive/2004/38/EC,

Thank you for all your good advice and directions.
I have read the "Refusal letters" from UKBA, (link at the bottom of your posts) and also the fact that as we are not yet married, then our application would not be as simple as it could be.
Bearing that in mind, and that we have been together for so long now, I guess another few months wait for our marriage might probably work in our favour.

I see it as "The first shot is the best shot"
So when Fay and I apply for her visa for Norway, and probable subsequent application for to UKBA for EEA FP, I want to make it as easy as possible for the UKBA to agree, and issue, rather than be refused, and end up going around the houses.

If we were refused, it may take us longer to appeal, and resubmit, than if we had just waited a few more months until we were married.

This worry might have no foundation, but I don't want to give UKBA any reason to caste shadow or doubt on our intentions.

Gra.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Please do not be put off by my search for refusal letters related to UKBA. While there are definitely some very poor decisions being made by UKBA on EEA Family Permits, there are also (I am sure!) a lot of professionals within the organization who know the law and follow it when making decisions.

Note that a refusal is the worst case. I suspect your Norwegian visa will just be issued.

If, for some reason, it is refused, then you can appeal AND/OR just submit a new visa application. No need to wait.

I personally see no downside in applying for the visa now.

[Graham Weifang]

Hi Hi Directive/2004/38/EC, and every one else,

Well the absolute finally came through at long last.
On Tuesday, we went to Beijing, and posted our "intention to marry" the marriage bands, are displayed for 21 days.
After the 21 days, I will go back and collect my CNI.
That's a "Certificate of No Impediment"
If you have divorced, then that's what you need first.
We have a provisional marriage date of 6 September.
The actual marriage in China is strictly an office procedure, nothing more than signatures, and collecting marriage books.
Now the job hunt begins in earnest, an Norway in particular.

vette

[Graham Weifang]

Well that's been more than a week with the "bans" posted in Beijing.
Our wedding day gets closer and closer

Gra

[Graham Weifang]

Well that's been more than two weeks with the "bans" posted in Beijing.
Our wedding day gets closer and closer and closer Very Happy Very Happy

vette

[Graham Weifang]

Well, that's the time reached for the bans to be posted.

Our Beijing friend, (who we needed to give a collection letter of authority to), went to Kerry center today 29th to collect my CNI, and our notice of intention to marry.
When our friend arrived to collect the documents, the stupid UK embassy had my girlfriends Chinese name wrong.
What a useless shower they seem to be in Kerry center.
They have now agreed to post a corrected document out to our friend in Beijing later today.
She should receive it tomorrow.
Then post it to us.

Gra.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

... went to Kerry center today 29th to collect my CNI, and our notice of intention to marry.
When our friend arrived to collect the documents, the stupid UK embassy had my girlfriends Chinese name wrong.

I am not sure if I understand why the UK embassy is involved at all in the marriage.

Not that my question is at all relevant for the immigration issues involved.

[Graham Weifang]

Hi Guru,

I got divorced in UK.
I returned to China with the absolute.
I then just need present the absolute to UK embassy in Beijing for them to post the bans.
After that I get the English and Chinese translated CNI (Certificate of no impediment)

So now we have just returned from her home city where we were married on Friday.
Now we have out Chinese red marriage books, and the full Chinese / English translated certificates for use outside China.

Being divorced, I could have the absolute notorised by UK public notary, then legalised by the apostolic services in London, then translated into Chinese in the Chinese consulate in Manchester.
It was all a lot of faffing around, when I can get it all done in one place in Beijing.

So now all married, and considering our next step into UK or Europe.

Graham

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

By why does the embassy in Beijing "post the bans"? What part does that play in anything? I just am trying to get my head around it. Is there a link to this service being mentioned on the consular web site?

[Graham Weifang]

Hi Guru,

http://ukinchina.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for ... -marriage/

Post the bans in Beijing, in the British Embassy Beijing.
for the required stipulated time period.
This cost 685 CNY about £65.00

You need to produce the original court divorce absolute document.
And we both complete an "Intention to marry form", which is the form displayed in the display case, in the Embassy (The Bans display case)

Then after the posting time has elapsed, ie, no one has shown any reason why you both should not get married, the British Embassy in Beijing will issue you with your required C.N.I. or "Certificate of No Impediment", could also be called a "Certificate of Marriageability"
This also cost 685 CNY. About £65.00

Then now you have the C.N.I. you and your girl head on to her Hukou registered city, and go to the marriage office.

There you need, the C.N.I. UK passport, complete with Chinese visa, any visa will do, but you must have been in China for more than 21 days after your last entry stamp.
And that's all I needed.
Her needed her original Hokou, and her ID card.

The photographs of us sitting together with a red back ground are taken in the marriage offices, in a side room, there are 4 double photos taken.

1 photo of the both of us is adhered into my marriage book, 1 photo of the both of us is adhered into her marriage book.

My marriage book shows my name first, at the top, and hers under neath, her marriage book is identical, but with her name at the top, and my name underneath.
The red marriage books are 12,5 cm tall, and 9 cm wide.

All great,

vette

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Interesting! Thanks

[Graham Weifang]

Interesting! Thanks

.
My pleasure.

I guess our next small hurdle will be a Family visit visa for uk.
Her got a refusal about 15 months ago, due to some incorrect paper work.
Her changed jobs while her tourist visa application was in Beijing UKBA.
When UKBA phoned her work, were she used to work, they said she don't work there.
They were right, as she had moved to her new employers.
This is our worry now, however, I am hoping a written explanation will be understood, and she will be issued a family visit visa for UK.
At least, I think that's the visa we will apply for, as we will only go for 1 month max, as she needs to return to her job here in China.

Suggestions, ideas ?

vette

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You are British. Have you lived and worked in another EU member state?

If she has been refused before by the UK, you may find it easier and cheaper to go on vacation to somewhere else in Europe.