Visiting Holland with my Non-EU wife

[RathJohn]

Hi All,

I was just wondering if anyone has experience or knowledge of visiting Holland with a non-eu spouse.

I am an Irish citizen, and my wife whom is ukrainian are planning to go to Holland for 3 days this month. She is on stamp 4 spouse of irish citizen

From my understanding, we could turn up at the dutch border control with our marriage cert, her gnib card, and our passports and they would have to issue an on the spot visa. But the obvious flaw in this is that if she is denied check-in at Dublin.

So, to go the official way, we need to obtain a visa from the dutch embassy on merrion road, dublin. Under that EC directive, these visas have to be issued free of charge and as quick as possible. Also the EC directive states that no hotel bookings, plane tickets, payslips and so on need to be produced for this visa.

My Question about this process, is How long is "visas to be issued as quick as possible" will be? We will go in 17 days time....do I have the time to get this visa.

Anyone in a similar position have dealings with the Dutch embassy?

Thanks
John...

[El shaddai]

To safe yourself from any unwarrant embarrassement, you need to apply for a visa, and how long it will take is at the Embassy's discretion but i think they are more Quicker these days just apply as soon as possible. Good Luck

[Ben]

Hi John,

You should have time, as the visa should be issued within a week.

That said, if you fly with Aer Lingus and check-in online or by using one of the self check-in machines in DUB, your wife will very likely not be refused boarding.

[ca.funke]

...we could turn up at the dutch border control with our marriage cert, her gnib card, and our passports and they would have to issue an on the spot visa...

They wouldn´t even have to issue an on-the-spot-visa, they just let you pass, even without stamping your wife´s passport.

See >>2004/38/EC<<, Article 5 Sections 2,3 and 4, together with Article 10.

My wife and me flew from DUB to AMS and entered this way, no questions asked. Seems the guards in AMS are better trained than most of their European counterparts.

[RathJohn]

Hi John,

You should have time, as the visa should be issued within a week.

That said, if you fly with Aer Lingus and check-in online or by using one of the self check-in machines in DUB, your wife will very likely not be refused boarding.

Thanks for your replies guys. Just out of interest I called the dutch embassy today, and explained my situation. The man whom I was talking to there, who incidently seemed to be Irish, told me that I have to make an appointment for the application process and that it now takes 3 weeks or more from the appointment to get the visa, because the application is sent to London now. He also mentioned that they need confirmation that she is travelling with me, or there will be a fee charged for the visa, and that my wife to have insurance too. As far as I'm aware these requests are in contradiction to the EC directive!!
Thanks
John...

[ca.funke]

...The man whom I was talking to there, who incidently seemed to be Irish, told me that I have to make an appointment for the application process and that it now takes 3 weeks or more from the appointment to get the visa, because the application is sent to London now. He also mentioned that they need confirmation that she is travelling with me...

Hi RathJohn,

I wouldn´t blame you for believing some guy in the embassy over some other guys you just happen to read in a forum, however I strongly advise you not to apply for anything, but just fly together with your wife, without applying for a visa!

However, read the info in this forum carefully, print out the law, and have your argumentation ready in case you need it. You might just slip through without any problems, but you can also end up having crazy discussions with crazy airlinestaff/borderguards!

Happy travels,
Rgds,
Christian

[adlexy]

...The man whom I was talking to there, who incidently seemed to be Irish, told me that I have to make an appointment for the application process and that it now takes 3 weeks or more from the appointment to get the visa, because the application is sent to London now. He also mentioned that they need confirmation that she is travelling with me...

Hi RathJohn,

I wouldn´t blame you for believing some guy in the embassy over some other guys you just happen to read in a forum, however I strongly advise you not to apply for anything, but just fly together with your wife, without applying for a visa!

However, read the info in this forum carefully, print out the law, and have your argumentation ready in case you need it. You might just slip through without any problems, but you can also end up having crazy discussions with crazy airlinestaff/borderguards!

Happy travels,
Rgds,
Christian

Spot on ca.funke!

Rathjohn, you do not require the visa based on the Directive - maybe you should print the directive and read. It may also be wise to carry the Directive and highlight the areas of interest in the event that some clowns are trying to argue with you otherwise. But usually, a senior officer understands that process better that the lackeys!

The guy you spoke to at the embassy may not know what he is saying - many of them dont. Even at some border posts, some dont even know what they are saying - some had never heard of the Directive.

I will again give the example in 2006 when I made an application at the Irish embassy in London. The visa officer I met told me I had completed the wrong form! After minutes of debates, I requested to speak with a senior officer who confirmed I had the correct form for the WORKING visa! If I wasnt there, I would probably have been refused on the basis that I completed the wrong form!

As advised, go fully armed and there is no need for a visa. Check in Online and limit the number of people you have to argue with to those at the location you are going to. Though you are very unlikely to have problem at that end!

All the best

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Hi John,

You should have time, as the visa should be issued within a week.

That said, if you fly with Aer Lingus and check-in online or by using one of the self check-in machines in DUB, your wife will very likely not be refused boarding.

Thanks for your replies guys. Just out of interest I called the dutch embassy today, and explained my situation. The man whom I was talking to there, who incidently seemed to be Irish, told me that I have to make an appointment for the application process and that it now takes 3 weeks or more from the appointment to get the visa, because the application is sent to London now. He also mentioned that they need confirmation that she is travelling with me, or there will be a fee charged for the visa, and that my wife to have insurance too. As far as I'm aware these requests are in contradiction to the EC directive!!
Thanks
John...

Three weeks is not acceptable for simply getting an appointment according to the Schengen rules. One should get a visa within three weeks all in. Your visa should be treated on a priority basis.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Hi John,

You should have time, as the visa should be issued within a week.

That said, if you fly with Aer Lingus and check-in online or by using one of the self check-in machines in DUB, your wife will very likely not be refused boarding.

If one gets on a plane and to the border with evidence, great! If one's refused, holiday ruined.

[RathJohn]

Hi John,

You should have time, as the visa should be issued within a week.

That said, if you fly with Aer Lingus and check-in online or by using one of the self check-in machines in DUB, your wife will very likely not be refused boarding.

If one gets on a plane and to the border with evidence, great! If one's refused, holiday ruined.

On the 2004/38/EC directive it states:

Article 4
Right of exit
1. Without prejudice to the provisions on travel documents applicable to national border controls,
all Union citizens with a valid identity card or passport and their family members who are not
nationals of a Member State and who hold a valid passport shall have the right to leave the territory
of a Member State to travel to another Member State.
2. No exit visa or equivalent formality may be imposed on the persons to whom paragraph 1
applies.


Is it possible for the Airline to deny boarding without a visa on the above stated law?

Thanks
John.

[Irisheddy]

This seems very clear John. It seems beyond any doubt that you should be able to travel to any EU country as long as you have a valid passport and your wife has either a valid passport or identity document.
My only concern would be coming back into the country. Even irish people have trouble coming in without the appropriate documentation(Or what they think the appropriate documentation is).

[RathJohn]

This seems very clear John. It seems beyond any doubt that you should be able to travel to any EU country as long as you have a valid passport and your wife has either a valid passport or identity document.
My only concern would be coming back into the country. Even irish people have trouble coming in without the appropriate documentation(Or what they think the appropriate documentation is).

Thanks Irisheddy. My wife has vaild re-entry irish visa, so coming back is no problem. It's getting out of here that is!!!!. As some others have explained here, that if we check in online, with no luggage, all should be ok. But my problem is that we are travelling on open tickets and need to check in at the Aer Lingus desk in Dublin.

John

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Hi John,

You should have time, as the visa should be issued within a week.

That said, if you fly with Aer Lingus and check-in online or by using one of the self check-in machines in DUB, your wife will very likely not be refused boarding.

If one gets on a plane and to the border with evidence, great! If one's refused, holiday ruined.

On the 2004/38/EC directive it states:

Article 4
Right of exit
1. Without prejudice to the provisions on travel documents applicable to national border controls,
all Union citizens with a valid identity card or passport and their family members who are not
nationals of a Member State and who hold a valid passport shall have the right to leave the territory
of a Member State to travel to another Member State.
2. No exit visa or equivalent formality may be imposed on the persons to whom paragraph 1
applies.


Is it possible for the Airline to deny boarding without a visa on the above stated law?

Thanks
John.

It would be the airline that would refuse boarding.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

This seems very clear John. It seems beyond any doubt that you should be able to travel to any EU country as long as you have a valid passport and your wife has either a valid passport or identity document.
My only concern would be coming back into the country. Even irish people have trouble coming in without the appropriate documentation(Or what they think the appropriate documentation is).

Thanks Irisheddy. My wife has vaild re-entry irish visa, so coming back is no problem. It's getting out of here that is!!!!. As some others have explained here, that if we check in online, with no luggage, all should be ok. But my problem is that we are travelling on open tickets and need to check in at the Aer Lingus desk in Dublin.

John

If you've time; get a visa and relax.

[RathJohn]

[/quote]If you've time; get a visa and relax.[/quote]

We are going on the 15th this month, so thats 10 days time. The next appointment available for the Dutch embassy is thursday the 9th!! I think I'm out of time, or will they do something quick for us?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

If you've time; get a visa and relax.[/quote]

We are going on the 15th this month, so thats 10 days time. The next appointment available for the Dutch embassy is thursday the 9th!! I think I'm out of time, or will they do something quick for us?[/quote]

I suspect you might be out of time unless you can state that you've got an urgent reason for travel.