new born baby, passport and ILR

[nonothing]

hi, guys

i'm chinese nationality. i've been on WP for nearly 4 years in the UK. i had my baby boy born here recently. my plan is to apply a british passport for him next year after i've got my ILR. becuase chinese government doesn't accept dual nationality, apparently there's no need to apply a chinese passport for him. therefore it's impossible to include him in my ILR application form without a passport. surely i'll get him a UK birth certificate though.

now here comes my question. will it be a problem (for example, he will be regarded as illegal to stay here) when i apply the british passport for my boy?

thanks in advance.

[John]

.................. when i apply the british passport for my boy?

You need to appreciate that just because you get your ILR it will not automatically get British Citizenship for your son. Go to this IND webpage and download the Guide MN1, the Form MN1 and also the Fee Note.

That is, after you get your ILR, apply for your son to be Registered as British, and once you have your son's Registration Certificate, getting your son a British Passport will be very easy.

Lack of Chinese passport? I don't think that is a problem.

[ppron747]

Shouldn't "nonothing" be applying for further leave for the babe, though, John - to tide him over until the registration?

[John]

I had that thought, and maybe he should be entered on to the form SET(O), but without a passport, how exactly will IND react?

Any thoughts anyone?

[nonothing]

john and ppron747, thanks a lot, you guys are always the quickest.

i understand the right route, that'd be something like this:

1) birth certificate -> 2) chinese passport -> 3) dependent visa -> 4) registration to the police -> 5) ILR (optional) -> 6) registration as a british citizen -> 7) british passport

that's the most likely outcome if i phone the home office up.

for the apparent finance and stress reason and some other reasons, i hope i could skip the step 2-5.

from Guide MN1, it seems no problem to get the british citizen registration without a chinese passport. but my concern is that it might eventually depend on how the case work thinks. and that could put it into a considerable uncertainty.

[JAJ]

from Guide MN1, it seems no problem to get the british citizen registration without a chinese passport. but my concern is that it might eventually depend on how the case work thinks. and that could put it into a considerable uncertainty.

British citizenship under section 1(3) of the British Nationality Act is an entitlement and there is no scope for case officer "discretion" if the statutory requirements are met.

[John]

"Nonothing" if you click here you will see the relevant part of the instructions to staff dealing with these applications.

JAJ has mentioned applications under Section 1(3). Reading the document it seems totally clear that there is an entitlement for your UK-born child to be Registered as British once you have your ILR. There is no requirement for the child's existing passport (if any) being produced in support of the application.

[june]

Hi nonothng

Your baby would only be British automatically if you were British or had ILR at the time of his birth. He can be registered as a British citizen after you get your ILR.

Your baby doesn't need leave to remain in the UK because he didn't need leave to enter the UK in the first place; he was born here. For the same reason a SET application form (O or F), which applies to a variation of leave, would not be applicable.

Of course you didn't state the nationallity of the child's mother. If she is British and you are not married, the child is automatically British and entitled to a UK passport.

[ppron747]

Your baby would only be British automatically if you were British or had ILR at the time of his birth. He can be registered as a British citizen after you get your ILR.

Yes - as both John and JAJ have already said - complete with links to the relevant parts of the IND website.

Your baby doesn't need leave to remain in the UK because he didn't need leave to enter the UK in the first place; he was born here. For the same reason a SET application form (O or F), which applies to a variation of leave, would not be applicable.

Doesn't this statement conflict with paras 304 et seq of the Immigration Rules?

I think it is clear that, legally, "nonothing" should be applying for further leave for the baby. The question really boils down to whether this is absolutely essential, given that "nonothing" will be applying for ILR in the not too distant future.

We know that, once "nonothing" has ILR, the baby will be entitled to registration as a BC. The only lingering doubt I have - and I hope someone will wade in with an answer to this - is whether failure to apply for further leave for the baby could possibly have an effect on "nonothing's" own ILR application? I'd hope it wouldn't, but it would be nice to have something a bit more definitive than my hopes...

[Christophe]

Of course you didn't state the nationallity of the child's mother. If she is British and you are not married, the child is automatically British and entitled to a UK passport.

And also so even if they are married to each other...

[John]

Paul I think the relevant part of para 304 reads :-

Such a child requires leave to enter where admission to the United Kingdom is sought, and leave to remain where permission is sought for the child to be allowed to stay in the United Kingdom.

Thus the non-British child born in the UK certainly needs leave to enter. That is, if the child is taken outside the UK then a visa is needed to get the child back into the UK. That visa could be obtained prior in the UK prior to the child leaving.

As regards "leave to remain" I think it is interesting to see that whoever drafted the Immigration Rules included the words "where permission is sought". So looking at this from the opposite angle, if permission is not sought then I don't think that makes the child illegal. That is, it is possible for permission to be sought but that does not appear to be compulsory.

So non-British child born in the UK, no intention of taking the child out of the UK prior to the parent getting their ILR, I think it follows that it is not compulsory for a visa to be obtained for the child. Just obtain Registration as British following the parent's ILR.

[ppron747]

Good-oh!

[nonothing]

bravo, guys, it really clears everything out. lol!

thanks so much for you guys' valuable input.

now i can sit back and care about the boy contentedly without going through those meaningless applications.

to june and christophe, i'm married to a chinese girl, togetther with the HO's ILR 4-5 changes, that's where all the fuss comes from.

thanks again, guys. remember you guys still owe me a congratulation.

[ppron747]

Congratulations, nonothing!!

[nonothing]

Congratulations, nonothing!!

YeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaH. that's more like it.

thank you so much.

[Jothy]

This is regarding dual passport, I’m an Indian nationality, on Work Permit and eligible to apply for ILR in May 2007, My baby girl is now 7 months old, If I apply an Indian passport for my baby now, and also apply BC once I get ILR, Can she have dual passport? Does Indian government accept this?. If not, From the above posts, Shall I wait until I get ILR and straight away apply BC for her.

[JAJ]

This is regarding dual passport, I’m an Indian nationality, on Work Permit and eligible to apply for ILR in May 2007, My baby girl is now 7 months old, If I apply an Indian passport for my baby now, and also apply BC once I get ILR, Can she have dual passport? Does Indian government accept this?. If not, From the above posts, Shall I wait until I get ILR and straight away apply BC for her.

Once you register your child as a British citizen, or obtain a British passport, she automatically loses Indian citizenship.

Consider PIO Card or overseas Indian citizenship for her instead.

[Jothy]

Thanks JAJ

[Jothy]

John/ppron747, I've been granted ILR last month. When I went to Home office in person to apply for ILR, the case worker asked to include my daughter's name in the application (She was born in the UK and 11 months old, she didn't have any passport. ), got ILR stamping in a paper. My question is, Shall I apply for "Naturalisation as a British citizen" now or Still wait for another year? Please advise.

[olisun]

John/ppron747, I've been granted ILR last month. When I went to Home office in person to apply for ILR, the case worker asked to include my daughter's name in the application (She was born in the UK and 11 months old, she didn't have any passport. ), got ILR stamping in a paper. My question is, Shall I apply for "Naturalisation as a British citizen" now or Still wait for another year? Please advise.

For whom?

[John]

Shall I apply for "Naturalisation as a British citizen" now or Still wait for another year?

Well you have to wait until you have held ILR for at least one year before applying for your Naturalisation.

However, your child is entitled to be Registered (not Naturalised) as British now, given the birth in the UK. Use form MN1 to register the child.

[Jothy]

Thanks John.

Hi olisun, Its for my daughter. Sorry I didn't mention properly.