advice needed for 2nd EEA FP Application

yamcheka · Post by **yamcheka** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 pm

hello, I am married to a Hungarian for 5 years. He visited me 4 times in the Philippines. Oct/2006- our first meeting, feb/2007- our wedding, feb2008, feb2012.

I applied EEA FP last Aug/2011. Shortly after the refusal my husband bought a ticket to fly here in the Philippines to visit which supposedly on Oct/2011. he missed the flight due to security reasons in the airport, though that was a big loss for us for the non-refundable ticket we keep our hopes high.

This is the decision (I prefer to write down completely the entire thing):

You married your Hungarian Husband in the Philippines in Feb2007. He has visited you only once since that time, for 13 days in Feb2008. You have not explained why neither of you have made plans to visit each other since this time. I acknowledge some financial dependency upon your husband and there are some cards and other evidence of intervening devotion (phonebills) in your application, but outweighing these factors is the fact that you have not attempted to see each other for nearly 3.5 years. on the balance of probabilities therefore, I am not satisfied that you have adequately evidenced any form of cohabitation or that this marriage is subsisting and that you intend to live together in the UK as husband and wife. I therefore refuse you EEA family permit application because i am not satisfied that you meet all the requirements of Regulation 12 of Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006.

We did not appeal. Instead my husband came for a visit in the Philippines and we decided to apply for the second time.

The reason we did not make any plans to visit each other between feb2008 up to our first application. After my husband visit of feb 2008, he was greatly affected with the economic crisis around 2009, so travelling or application of the EEA FP not possible. I was not working during that time too so we really endure being apart. by the end of 2010 we decided to apply for EEA FP on the next year. Gathering of documents, preparing them was not easy for the my side. I was kinda confuse so the application lodged on aug/2011. however, we have provided photos and phone bills, payslips, emails, cards, ecards as proof that our marriage is genuine and we love each other... just not together and just not possible during that time.

Here are my questions:
(1) What's the best thing to include on my 2nd application?
(2) Should i explain why we did not appeal on the refusal?
(3) Should i provide more photos and email?

For those who have experience applying the EEA FP and was successful. Please guide me through my 2nd application. Your advice is deeply appreciated.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:50 pm

Where is your husband normally? Is he in the UK or elsewhere? What does he do? Does he work, etc?

If you apply again, you will need to mention the previous refusals, etc.

Basically, what I suggest you need to do is to articulate the circumstance of your marriage. Where did you met, when, what you planned to do after marriage, where you intended to live, etc. What stopped those plans from coming to fruition, economic hard times, etc. The more evidence you have that you have of an ongoing relationship the better.

The decision maker will have a tendency to look on matters though the eyes of a westerner and will find it difficult to believe that genuine family members could be apart for so long. You need to work a little harder at convincing them.

yamcheka · Post by **yamcheka** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:20 pm

Where is your husband normally? Is he in the UK or elsewhere? What does he do? Does he work, etc?

Thank you for you response on my topic.

My husband is working in the UK for almost 8 years. He's working on Lidl company as duty manager. He is not earning a lot with his job but it would be of great circumstance if we living together. We want soonestly want to have children coz we are not getting any younger.

One of my concerns:

(1) does it needs to have big savings for my husband side for them to approve my application?
(2) can you suggest ways to better explain our side of things?

waiting for your response. thank you.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:44 pm

yamcheka wrote:
Where is your husband normally? Is he in the UK or elsewhere? What does he do? Does he work, etc?
Thank you for you response on my topic.

My husband is working in the UK for almost 8 years. He's working on Lidl company as duty manager. He is not earning a lot with his job but it would be of great circumstance if we living together. We want soonestly want to have children coz we are not getting any younger.

One of my concerns:

(1) does it needs to have big savings for my husband side for them to approve my application?
(2) can you suggest ways to better explain our side of things?

waiting for your response. thank you.

Savings will have nothing to do with your application if your husband works.

I gave you some thought on what you should do to explain the story of your marriage. Only you know how to articulate this as it is your story.

yamcheka · Post by **yamcheka** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:21 am

would a cover letter be enough? or a letter from me and my husband?

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:28 pm

yamcheka wrote:would a cover letter be enough? or a letter from me and my husband?

A cover letter and letter from your husband would be a great start. You should back up any statements you make with as much evidence as you can.

tina79 · Post by **tina79** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:17 am

well, i suggest you or ur husband to speak to a solicitor as it seems second time you will not be successful again. Sorry for turning you down.

As there was mentioned above, they will look at the fact that you have not been together for 3years and they cannot see any effort from you to make it happen....

If you go for it 2nd time, you will need to give them as much evidence as you can, exaple, lots of photos, msn chatting or skyp, emails, phone bills and if he did send money to you, then proof of it as well even all these should not be asked if you are applying for EEA family permit....but...they can see that this is marriage of convenience and not from love, not real.... you should also explain why you could not meet, ect....when you apply for 2nd time they will see the first application and the reason for refusal.

If you have friends who know you and your husband ask them to write a letter about your relationship and the difficulty to see each other and being together.

well, i good luck with it. it will be a difficult road ahead of you but dont give up.....

how did you meet each other?

yamcheka · Post by **yamcheka** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:03 pm

how did you meet each other?

I can provide everything you mentioned. this time around i want to make sure we'll have the family permit hopefully. anyway, thank you for your advice.

unfortunately, we consulted a solicitor but it was all for nothing.

yamcheka · Post by **yamcheka** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:01 am

hello tina,

after the application, oct of last year my husband had the plane ticket and was on his way for a visit in the philippines he encountered heathrow airport security holding him and missed his flight. this february he came for a visit for 3 weeks. would that be a strong factor for my second application?

Do i need to explain why we opt to reapply than go for the appeal?

Anybody who have had experience and succeed, pls share a piece of advice. I need it desperately.

thank you.

jumpingzombie · Post by **jumpingzombie** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:04 am

yamcheka wrote:

would a cover letter be enough? or a letter from me and my husband?

I think it's a good idea to submit a letter, describing about your relationship,circunstances with your husband,since the beginning to now. Especially, why you couldn't meet each other for a while as detailed as possible.
I wrote an essay, explaining when and how I met my husband at first, about my visits to the UK, his visit to Norway that I lived in at that time, travels we did together, including to Japan for our marriage and to Germany as a honeymoon.

My case could have been considered on the basis of the convinience of marriage, because of my refusal records and a duration since we met for the first time before our marriage that is less than an year. So, I made a really detailed essay, to prove our relationship.
After I submitted everything at the British Embassy in Oslo, somebody in the British embassy in Stockholm(all applications from the scandinavian countries go there) called me and asked about my refusal records and how I met my husband for the first time, eventhough everything was explained on the application form or in the essay! Be prepare for anything...

yamcheka wrote:

this february he came for a visit for 3 weeks. would that be a strong factor for my second application?

I think so. You just need to collect all documents to prove his visit, together with some photos.

yamcheka · Post by **yamcheka** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:47 am

thanks a lot!

MelC · Post by **MelC** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:49 pm

As your husband is exercising his treaty right in the UK, you have a right as his spouse to join him.

the point is that YOU ARE MARRIED, and it is NOT up to the ECO to determine how a couple conduct their marriage, or are able to due to financial or other constraints.

for your application for EEA/fp all that is required is your marriage certificate and your passport and at least a certified copy of his passport as it will not be with you.

you can, and it would be prudent to enclose a copy of his employment contract to confirm that he is indeed exercising treaty rights.
and a copy of his accommodation details ~ tenancy agreement.

Other than that nothing is actually required.

I would suggest that your husband contacts Your Europe, who will confirm
his and therefor your rights, I would not be inclined to complete the application form in full, as it is over and above the legal requirement in deed my own husband arrived without an EEA/fp as they are NOT MANDATORY, but as you are entering the EU via the UK it would be prudent to have it, i would then enclose the copy of the email you would have from Your Europe with the application with a covering letter and TELL them you look forward to receiving your EEAfp without further delay,

don't ask them TELL THEM!

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:36 am

MelC wrote:As your husband is exercising his treaty right in the UK, you have a right as his spouse to join him.

the point is that YOU ARE MARRIED, and it is NOT up to the ECO to determine how a couple conduct their marriage, or are able to due to financial or other constraints.

for your application for EEA/fp all that is required is your marriage certificate and your passport and at least a certified copy of his passport as it will not be with you.

you can, and it would be prudent to enclose a copy of his employment contract to confirm that he is indeed exercising treaty rights.
and a copy of his accommodation details ~ tenancy agreement.

Other than that nothing is actually required.

The OP will not get on a plane to the UK without an EEA family permit. It would be a lot harder for her to present herself at a UK border (she could get a Schengen visa, but let's concentrate on the family permit for now).

I would suggest that your husband contacts Your Europe, who will confirm
his and therefor your rights, I would not be inclined to complete the application form in full, as it is over and above the legal requirement in deed my own husband arrived without an EEA/fp as they are NOT MANDATORY, but as you are entering the EU via the UK it would be prudent to have it, i would then enclose the copy of the email you would have from Your Europe with the application with a covering letter and TELL them you look forward to receiving your EEAfp without further delay,

don't ask them TELL THEM!

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:40 am

Quote did not come out correctly above.

The OP will not get on a plane without a family permit. No airline will allow her to board. It would be difficult to get to a UK border without a visa (if she had a schenegen visa she could get to France and then a juxtaposed border, but let's concentrate on the family permit first).

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:41 am

Apart from the long period of absence from your husband, there is nothing particularly unusual about your application.

You are married (provide marriage certificate)
He is working in the UK (provide a letter from his employer or other proof such as payslips, P60).
He is an EEA national (provide copy of his passport)
Provide your passport.
Strictly, speaking nothing else is required.

However, to avoid being accused of being party to a marriage of convenience, in your particular case, it would be worth explaining the history of your relationship. We've been over this before.

Make your application and get on with it. Make sure your husband gets to the airport on time as well!

yamcheka · Post by **yamcheka** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:36 pm

i would like to thank all of you for your response.

Basically from the first application i have all the necessary documents that all of you mentioned except the letter from my husband, a cover letter and my letter explaining the history of your relationship.

we even have marriage certificate from the Philippines and Hungary.

sorry but what OP and my Europe means?

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:45 pm

yamcheka wrote:i would like to thank all of you for your response.

Basically from the first application i have all the necessary documents that all of you mentioned except the letter from my husband, a cover letter and my letter explaining the history of your relationship.

we even have marriage certificate from the Philippines and Hungary.

sorry but what OP and my Europe means?

OP - is you as you started this thread.

http://europa.eu/eu-life/residence-rights/index_en.htm

yamcheka · Post by **yamcheka** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:16 am

I have read about the Europa.eu website... thanks for giving me the link.

I will be drafting my cover letter for my application. I will keep you posted guys. thank you so much.

by the way, do I need to wait for the new P60 this april 201. or I can just apply by the P60 of previous year?

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:58 am

Can I suggest a letter from employer - that would be enough? You could include payslips and let's say last year's P60 to give it more weight, but you don't have to. Waiting for this year's P60 could take some time.

yamcheka · Post by **yamcheka** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:05 pm

My concern is about the tenancy agreement. I have here for furnished flat on an assured shorthold tenancy both signed by the landlord and my husband. is this valid without any legal notarization?

yamcheka · Post by **yamcheka** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:12 pm

here is my Cover Letter

Enclosed herewith is my application for EEA Family Permit. According to The Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006 section 12, the following documents are provided with the application.

(1) Online Application completed and printed
(2) My current and previous passports
(3) Our Marriage Certificate (from Philippines and Hungary with translation)
(4) One (1) colored passport size photograph
(5) My service Record as proof of employment or economic activity
(6) My Latest Income Tax Return
(7) My husband's certified true copy of his passport
(8 ) My husband's P60 2010-11
(9) My Husband's payslips from past 6 months
(10) Letter from the employer/ District Mgr confirming his length of employment in the company
(11) Tenancy agreement from my husband's flat
(12) Selection of emails, skype chat conversations, ecards, photos, postal delivery mails and cards, money transfer receipts and phone bills.
(13) Email from the European Union confirming the right of my husband and my rights as family member of an EEA national.
(14) Letter from my husnband
(15) My own letter

should i continue the things i wanna write (like how we met, why there was no attempt of visit for 3 yrs, the refusal, our plans) on the above letter or put it on another letter to be enclosed with the application? Please go over with my cover letter and let me know the things i missed.

thank you.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:40 pm

yamcheka wrote:here is my Cover Letter

Enclosed herewith is my application for EEA Family Permit. According to The Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006 section 12, the following documents are provided with the application.

(1) Online Application completed and printed (fine)
(2) My current and previous passports (previous passport not relevant unless you have a specific reason for presenting it)
(3) Our Marriage Certificate (from Philippines and Hungary with translation) (fine, but is it in English or is there a translation)
(4) One (1) colored passport size photograph (fine)
(5) My service Record as proof of employment or economic activity (irrelevant)
(6) My Latest Income Tax Return (irrelevant)
(7) My husband's certified true copy of his passport (fine)
(8 ) My husband's P60 2010-11 (fine as back up to 10)
(9) My Husband's payslips from past 6 months (fine as back up to 10)
(10) Letter from the employer/ District Mgr confirming his length of employment in the company (fine)
(11) Tenancy agreement from my husband's flat (irrelevant)
(12) Selection of emails, skype chat conversations, ecards, photos, postal delivery mails and cards, money transfer receipts and phone bills. (fine)
(13) Email from the European Union confirming the right of my husband and my rights as family member of an EEA national.
(14) Letter from my husnband (fine, but does it say that you'll be traveling together or that you'll be joining him)
(15) My own letter (I would explain my situation as you suggest below here).

should i continue the things i wanna write (like how we met, why there was no attempt of visit for 3 yrs, the refusal, our plans) on the above letter or put it on another letter to be enclosed with the application? Please go over with my cover letter and let me know the things i missed.

thank you.

Comments above.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:41 pm

yamcheka wrote:My concern is about the tenancy agreement. I have here for furnished flat on an assured shorthold tenancy both signed by the landlord and my husband. is this valid without any legal notarization?

I don't understand this question.

Post by **Jambo** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:29 pm

Why you think you need to provide tenancy agreement? It is not required for EEA Family Permit.

yamcheka · Post by **yamcheka** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:38 am

@EUsmileWEallsmile:
does a tenancy agreement for furnished flat on an assured tenancy both signed by the landlord and my husband valid without legal stamp from a lawyer or notarization?

(3) Marriage Certificate: Philippines in english and authenticated by the Authority Hungary is with english translation

@Jambo:
i include tenancy agreement as it is one of the requirements from UKBA

then i dont need to include the irrelevant docs on my application.

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advice needed for 2nd EEA FP Application

advice needed for 2nd EEA FP Application