Reference letters from past & present employers

[docitduo]

Hi All,

Would appreciate comments & feedback from moderators and experienced colleagues on this forum -

Brief background - Have worked in 4 organizations in the last 13 years which includes a gap of 30 months in between, hence making an effective work experience of 9+ years in total.

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Company 1 (18 months)
Unable to get a reference letter as this is too long ago (13 years ago) for anyone to even know that I worked in the same organization. Hence I am not including this experience in the application.

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Company 2 (57 months)
Held 4 positions in the company during the 5 years that I worked here. The company shut down operations sometime in 2001-2002, but I do have a reference letter on the company letter head from one of my immediate supervisors then clearly mentioning the following:-

Designation 1
Employment period 1
Key responsibilities 1
.
.
Designation 4
Employment period 4
Key responsibilities 4

The one big thing missing in this letter issued soon after I resigned in 1999 the magic line stating that - all the positions I held required graduate level degree. So I have managed to get the same letter done from the same person on the letter head of the company he is currently working in now. This new letter (dated a few months ago) is a duplicate of the earlier reference letter with the magic line (in bold) "All positions held were graduate level roles requiring at minimum a bachelors degree in engineering with specialization in XX/YY".

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Company 3 (36 months)
Though the company now operates under a new name, I have a reference letter on the old letter head from the HR department mentioning the following:-

On Page 1 - This is to state that Mr XYZ was employed with ABC as XXXX from this date to that date. Please find detailed job description of the role as enclosed. Signed.

On Page 2 - Designation; Reporting to; Office Location (city); Purpose of role; Primary job responsibilities; Key result areas.

In this case, the magic line about "graduate level experience" is missing and I am afraid I cannot a new letter done from this organization.
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Full-time student & not working (30 months)
Am explaining in the cover letter that i was a student during the first 12 months of this 30 month period, and for the balance 18 months I wasn't working).

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Company 4 (present employer; 18 months)
Reference letter issued by HR in the following format on letter head paper:-

On Page 1 - This is to state that Mr XX is a full time emloyee of ABC, address, city. He joined the organization on this date.
Designation 1
Position held: from - to
Designation 2
Position held: from - to
Signature
Enclosure(s): Designation 1 - Roles & responsibilities; Designation 2 - Roles & responsibilities

On page 2 -
Desingation 1
Job Family
Category
Purpose of role
Scope and Impact of role
Key responsibilities
Minimum professional qualifications & experience requirements

On page 3 - All details as on page 2 for Designation 2.

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If you have managed to read all the way down to this point, I must thank you for your patience. Grateful, if people could comment on the following questions:-
1. Is it Okay to not mention anything about employement in company 1 which was more than 13 years ago ?

2. Company 2 is no longer in existance. Do you think reference letter from company 2 on the old (orginal) letterhead and another letter (with the same content and the magic line) from the person on the letterhead of his new company will suffice. My ex-manager is okay on being contacted directly and I am going to mention his contact details in the cover letter.

3. In Company 3 and 4, roles and respobilities are included on page 2(and 3) of the letter as an attachment. Can this pose a problem ?? But I have made sure that all pages (including enclosures are on letterhead, signed and stamped).

4. In company 3, I am unable to get the reference letter on the letterhead bearing the new name under which the company operates now. Can this be a problem ? I am trying to request the signatory (who still works there) to let me use his contact details for any verification that BHC might seek.

5. Lastly, does this 30 month gap pose an issue ... inspite of having 9+ years' of verifiable experience ??

Thanks in advance to all who are kind enough to offer their feedback and comments.

Hopefully, if moderators & expereienced colleagues approve of the format(s) above, people searching for sample formats can follow them !!

regards

[docitduo]

No comments

[radam]

1. Is it Okay to not mention anything about employement in company 1 which was more than 13 years ago ?
If you cant prove it, dont mention it...remember..the best way to get your approval is to keep your case SIMPLE and EASY TO UNDERSTAND...you are not going to get points if you dont have a letter..you will only land up increasing number of questions in the case workers mind...so Forget about it

2. Company 2 is no longer in existance. Do you think reference letter from company 2 on the old (orginal) letterhead and another letter (with the same content and the magic line) from the person on the letterhead of his new company will suffice. My ex-manager is okay on being contacted directly and I am going to mention his contact details in the cover letter.

The more recent the letter the better. Also giving contact details helps makes you case stronger. It would be better if you can get the experience letter on the new letter head (just in case they decide to call up someone else other than your manager...but 99% no one verifies this as long as its on a original letter head, signed and if possible rubber stamped)

3. In Company 3 and 4, roles and respobilities are included on page 2(and 3) of the letter as an attachment. Can this pose a problem ?? But I have made sure that all pages (including enclosures are on letterhead, signed and stamped).

Why are providing a 3 page Work Experience letter unless you are want to prove Senior position. The case worker is simply interested in your start date, End date and a brief para to decide whether it is graduate level job..again as I said 'KEEP IT SIMPLE FOR THE CASE WORKER'

4. In company 3, I am unable to get the reference letter on the letterhead bearing the new name under which the company operates now. Can this be a problem ? I am trying to request the signatory (who still works there) to let me use his contact details for any verification that BHC might seek.

Hmm...as long as you give Signatory contact details, the letter is on a letter head (If New..GReat!!! else Dont worry) it sohuld not be a problem

5. Lastly, does this 30 month gap pose an issue ... inspite of having 9+ years' of verifiable experience ??

I suggest on the top of all the work experience letter you put a table which shows hows the 9+ years are worked out. Explain any gaps in the table. Show your Start Date, End Date and what it stands for in terms of number of months...this summary will be very useful for the case worker to follow and award you necessary points

Hope all this helps

[docitduo]

Hi Radam,

Thank you for taking out the time to read the long post, and giving your valuable feedback. Much appreciated !!

Company 2 is no longer in existance. Do you think reference letter from company 2 on the old (orginal) letterhead and another letter (with the same content and the magic line) from the person on the letterhead of his new company will suffice. My ex-manager is okay on being contacted directly and I am going to mention his contact details in the cover letter.

The more recent the letter the better. Also giving contact details helps makes you case stronger. It would be better if you can get the experience letter on the new letter head (just in case they decide to call up someone else other than your manager...but 99% no one verifies this as long as its on a original letter head, signed and if possible rubber stamped)

As I said the compnay (company 2) has closed down, so there is no new letter head !! The recent letter from my ex-manager is on the letterhead of the company he currently works in. All pages signed and stamped !!

I suggest on the top of all the work experience letter you put a table which shows hows the 9+ years are worked out. Explain any gaps in the table. Show your Start Date, End Date and what it stands for in terms of number of months...this summary will be very useful for the case worker to follow and award you necessary points

Thanks ... this is useful

[pantaiema]

ukjobsforme

Where did you gain your experience. I am asking you becasue normally of you did not gain it in the UK or other industrialised countries or you are not working in well known multi national companies;

Job reference letters need to be backed up by other evidence such as pay slip, tax documents, bank statement , etc or other documents.

Pantaiema

[docitduo]

Hi Pantaiema,

Work experience - India.
Education - Bachelors from India, Masters from UK.

As for some background info. on the past & present employers, here's it is -
Company 1 - Let's ignore it as I am not going to mention about it in the application. Well, it was a small partnership firm !!

Compay 2 - Indian organization, one of the leaders in Indian market in its sector while it was operational (sad that it closed down 'cause of mismanagement).

Company 3 - A US transnational, amongst the top 3 global leaders in that industry sector. I worked for the Indian subsidiary at a middle management level.

Company 4 - A UK transnational. A household name worldwide and in existance since the last century. I am working at a senior level position (within Indian operations) and the reference letters have enough evidence in them to prove that. It is a different story that I am not claiming points for senior level experience (no advantage, better to ask for 65 only).

Job reference letters need to be backed up by other evidence such as pay slip, tax documents, bank statement , etc or other documents.

No prblems here. I have all of it with me - and all in order. If I wait till November, I can easily qualify for higher points from earnings (Income Band 2), but as I said earlier, I am happy submitting the application claiming 65 points only.


regards

[pantaiema]

Dear ukjobsforme

What I mean as well known MNC is that the company which are listed in the Top 100 or Top 500 in the financial times.

If you have all the documents which I mentined before, submit it as part of your application. This is important for your application. The advantage you will get is that:

-The caseworker will see that you are seriously preparinf your application.
- The caseworker will see that you do not have something to hide.

As you know quite reasonable people have been rejected from this side.

Pantaiema

Hi Pantaiema,

Work experience - India.
Education - Bachelors from India, Masters from UK.

As for some background info. on the past & present employers, here's it is -
Company 1 - Let's ignore it as I am not going to mention about it in the application. Well, it was a small partnership firm !!

Compay 2 - Indian organization, one of the leaders in Indian market in its sector while it was operational (sad that it closed down 'cause of mismanagement).

Company 3 - A US transnational, amongst the top 3 global leaders in that industry sector. I worked for the Indian subsidiary at a middle management level.

Company 4 - A UK transnational. A household name worldwide and in existance since the last century. I am working at a senior level position (within Indian operations) and the reference letters have enough evidence in them to prove that. It is a different story that I am not claiming points for senior level experience (no advantage, better to ask for 65 only).

Job reference letters need to be backed up by other evidence such as pay slip, tax documents, bank statement , etc or other documents.

No prblems here. I have all of it with me - and all in order. If I wait till November, I can easily qualify for higher points from earnings (Income Band 2), but as I said earlier, I am happy submitting the application claiming 65 points only.


regards

[sac]

ukjobsforme: just a suggestion, if you have to wait two months to qualify for earnings points, and if you're not in a tearing hurry, i would advise you wait, because the more points you earn, the surer your approval is. remember the whole point is to prove you will be an economic asset to the UK - and what better way than to show a high income level?
good luck

[docitduo]

Hi Pantaiema,

As mentioned above, Company 1 and Company 2 do not fall in the category of MNCs.

Company 3 - a US entity - was a publicly traded company (Fortune 500 member) till 2001. Following acquisition by a larger holding group (Fortune 100 member) in 2001, and a further sale to a $63 billion private equity and investment group in mid 2006, this company now (with a new name) is a privately owned entity.
I don't expect the caseworker to know all this, but am banking on the fact that the orignal name of the company is well-known around the globe.

Company 4- is a UK based organization and is a FTSE 100 member.


regards

[docitduo]

ukjobsforme: just a suggestion, if you have to wait two months to qualify for earnings points, and if you're not in a tearing hurry, i would advise you wait, because the more points you earn, the surer your approval is. remember the whole point is to prove you will be an economic asset to the UK - and what better way than to show a high income level?
good luck

I must say that the temptation to follow your advice is growing slowly (but steadily).

Thanks !!


regards

[pantaiema]

Hi ukjobsforme

Your work experience does not need to be in MNC to gain point in work experience. Although Company 1 and Company 2 do not fall in the category of MNCs. But at least you have tax evidence, pay slip etc. This will help you if you want to count your experience for this company. Quite a few people fail to claim point in this categiry because they do not realise that it is your interest and, 'NOT of the case worker', to prove your involvement in the Job. If the caseworker do not conveince with your involvement they simply refure to award you point in this category. As simple as that.

If you submit document such as your pay slip, tax document, bank statement, etc their only interest to see is that there is a strong evidence that you really igot nvolve in that Job.

I believe that with your expereince working in the company belongs Fortune 100 member you will easily claim point in work experience. Also I believe you could also easily get the job in the UK in the sma sector. You stand a good very chance to earn point in Work experience and find a job in the UK,

Good Luck

Pantaiema

Hi Pantaiema,

As mentioned above, Company 1 and Company 2 do not fall in the category of MNCs.

Company 3 - a US entity - was a publicly traded company (Fortune 500 member) till 2001. Following acquisition by a larger holding group (Fortune 100 member) in 2001, and a further sale to a $63 billion private equity and investment group in mid 2006, this company now (with a new name) is a privately owned entity.
I don't expect the caseworker to know all this, but am banking on the fact that the orignal name of the company is well-known around the globe.

Company 4- is a UK based organization and is a FTSE 100 member.


regards

[docitduo]

Your work experience does not need to be in MNC to gain point in work experience. Although Company 1 and Company 2 do not fall in the category of MNCs. But at least you have tax evidence, pay slip etc. This will help you if you want to count your experience for this company. Quite a few people fail to claim point in this categiry because they do not realise that it is your interest and, 'NOT of the case worker', to prove your involvement in the Job. If the caseworker do not conveince with your involvement they simply refure to award you point in this category. As simple as that.

If you submit document such as your pay slip, tax document, bank statement, etc their only interest to see is that there is a strong evidence that you really igot nvolve in that Job.

I have always believed that this is perhaps one of the best forum to share information and experiences, and gain advice. You just proved me right once again.

This is really valuable suggestion / advice. Thanks a million !!

[docitduo]

Hi Pantaiema / All,

Have been busy searching for my old payslips (1994-1999 & 1999-2002) and tax returns (1994-1999) in an effort to follow (Pantaiema's) advice. Haven't been lucky yet ... but I plan to search every nook and corner, in the hope that I'll find them somewhere.

I am not sure if you have answer to this, but no harm in asking - Do you think these old payslips too have to be signed and stamped ?? If that is the case, I am not sure if my search is going to help. Though I don't exactly remember (since it was so long ago), but I suspect that these payslips were on plain paper.

Also, do you think old appointment letters, promotion letters, relieving letters etc. will be equally good as evidence to support "involvement in job" or "proof of employment" with past employers where the company has closed down or I cannot get a recently dated reference letter from anyone.

Thanks in advance !


regards